esc wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Nice job! My gaming rig has started making some odd sounds when the
fans kick on. I haven't yet isolated which fan is the actual problem,
but once I do, I suspect I'll likely just replace it. I'm curious - did you consider replacing the fans at all or did you just want to fix the ones you have?

I ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here for
a month. I figured I'd do a dry-run first and see how hard it would be
to take apart this time.

I'll keep the new ones around for when the fans finally fail.




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Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Bencollver on Mon Jan 23 2023 12:25 pm

Re: How far I've come...
By: Bencollver to poindexter FORTRAN on Mon Jan 23 2023 11:50 am

Nice job! I remember being in a similar situation with a "homebrew" amd6 server that i inherited. These had metal screws. Servicing the fans hel for a while but i eventually had to replace them. I've broken newer and smaller hardware that has more plastic parts, so i understand the feeling relief when it still works after reassembly.

yeah but these fans are the cheapest money can buy. they also run nonstop. if you experience any problems, you should just replace instead of trying to I've been an electronics tech for over 17 years and I used to do RMAs every once in a while. I serviced electronics controls for transmissions and other

What is the reason for plastic screws? Do they abosrb shock, or deaden vibration? Back in the 90's some hard drive makerd would mount their drived in
a frame with rubber bushings.

The worst vibration I ran into was from a game cd that had heavy silk screenin g that was uneven. It worked fine in most cd drives, except for one. Not
sure if that drive was out of spec, but when that cd was inserted, it
rumbled like a washing machine with an unbalanced wash load.

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Re: Re: How far I've come...
By: poindexter FORTRAN to esc on Mon Jan 23 2023 06:15 am

I ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here for
a month. I figured I'd do a dry-run first and see how hard it would be
to take apart this time.

I'll keep the new ones around for when the fans finally fail.

why didnt you just use amazon
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Re: How far I've come...
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Jan 24 2023 12:17 pm

What is the reason for plastic screws? Do they abosrb shock, or deaden vibration? Back in the 90's some hard drive makerd would mount their drived in a frame with rubber bushings.

The worst vibration I ran into was from a game cd that had heavy silk screenin g that was uneven. It worked fine in most cd drives, except for one. Not
sure if that drive was out of spec, but when that cd was inserted, it rumbled like a washing machine with an unbalanced wash load.

it was just to be stupid. they tried all kinds of weird shit.
look at all the weird levers and trays that have always been in dells.

i wouldn't trust a non metal screw, there's a risk they'd snap eventually if someone messed with them enough.

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Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Moondog on Tue Jan 24 2023 04:29 pm

Re: How far I've come...
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Jan 24 2023 12:17 pm

What is the reason for plastic screws? Do they abosrb shock, or deaden vibration? Back in the 90's some hard drive makerd would mount their dri in a frame with rubber bushings.

The worst vibration I ran into was from a game cd that had heavy silk screenin g that was uneven. It worked fine in most cd drives, except for one. Not
sure if that drive was out of spec, but when that cd was inserted, it rumbled like a washing machine with an unbalanced wash load.

it was just to be stupid. they tried all kinds of weird shit.
look at all the weird levers and trays that have always been in dells.

i wouldn't trust a non metal screw, there's a risk they'd snap eventually if someone messed with them enough.

When I worked for ZDS, they had some systems they produced under the internal name of NDL - new design line. This was their attempt make a tool-free or minimal tool system similar to IBM's PS2 cases with interlocvking trays, clips, and friction fit pieces. Anyways, lack of screws and fasteners resulted in cases that could flex, in effect boards and connectors could loosen up over time. The field service bulletins would point out a probelm spotted in the fi eld, then provide the enginering solution. Several of the "solutions" were
to replace plastic clips with screws and tie down loose pieces with zip ties.

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Re: How far I've come...
By: Moondog to MRO on Wed Jan 25 2023 12:08 am

When I worked for ZDS, they had some systems they produced under the internal name of NDL - new design line. This was their attempt make a tool-free or minimal tool system similar to IBM's PS2 cases with interlocvking trays, clips, and friction fit pieces. Anyways, lack of screws and fasteners resulted in cases that could flex, in effect boards and connectors could loosen up over time. The field service bulletins would point out a probelm spotted in the fi eld, then provide the enginering solution. Several of the "solutions" were
to replace plastic clips with screws and tie down loose pieces with zip ties.

my experience with engineers is they are generally not brilliant and do not see things that are obvious to other people. maybe this because they are getting their education just for the job and they have no real interest. i've also worked with engineers who just like to tinker around and play but don't produce results.

at my old job we had to hire an old retired engineer to come up with a fix for complicated issue. it was a magnet. it worked better than every other application they tried.
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Hello MRO!

** On Tuesday 24.01.23 - 16:27, MRO wrote to poindexter FORTRAN:

I ordered new fans, but they're coming from China and won't be here for
a month...

why didnt you just use amazon

It seems that most electronics from A-n *does* come from China,
literally. I ordered a universival smartphone battery charger
not long ago, and paid extra for faster shipping, and the
product is still taking its sweet ol' time being shipped from
China. It too will be about a month in transit.



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(Re: Doing 8 to 10 hours of production work in 5 hours)

Sounds like you came through with the goods! That's great as long

>as they don't expect you to do more with less as a rule of thumb.

Yes, I think he was so amazed he decided not to question how I did it.

>I definitely wouldn't want to do that too often, nor could a lot of people
>if I'm being honest. The speed up involved things like ignoring the
>company policy of not lifting more than 70 lbs when dumping materials
>into a large mixer we used. That day I was working with up to 175 lbs.

what type of job was this? was this manufacturing where you were not

>showing up for the entire day and they accepted that?

Not sure what you are referring to about not showing up for the entire day.
It was a regular 40 hour a week job for us.

It was a plant making colouring for plastics, inks and special paints and
we got a super rush order for over a ton of product which had to go out
before the end of that day (5 hours later). Normally a product run that
big would take well over a full day to make up and lab test for quality.

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most of the jobs I did, my customers actually paid me more than I asked

> for so that I would be readily available for them when they needed me

Now there's the ticket! I wish I was as resourceful as you seem to be.

yeah he's really lucky. it's hard to believe that customers paid him more

>than what he asked for.

In general I was charging less than the going rate for things because I was working out of my house with lower overhead. Some of the jobs I was doing
it was hard to find people to do them at all - things under the heading
of Property Management doing maintanance and such on cottages for people
who were not there enough hours to look after the places themselves if
they wanted to have any time to get any enjoyment out of the place.

I was also doing computer work and, as an example, one time I got a call
from the Town Clerk (think Mayor's Chief of Staff) who had a computer
they couldn't spare out with a major computer place who tried for over
2 weeks to get it working right and I think were finally starting to
suggest they just scrap the nearly new computer and buy a replacement.
She called me and asked if I'd look at it, explaining the situation,
and I told her if they couldn't fix it I doubted that I could, but she
said she'd pay me to try.. I got it working in about 3 hours.
It was a totally hidden hardware issue where everything worked right
when tested on it's own, but didn't work right together, in only one
out of four identical computers bought at the same time.

Later when I stopped in one day she introduced me to a sales rep from
Wang computers as their Computer Guru.. B)

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Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that would stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't break
anything or have screws left over!

I know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago had the
same problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall box. Then it happened to my cloud server. Then...

Feels good doesn't it.

Daniel Traechin

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calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that would stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't break
anything or have screws left over!

I know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago had
the same problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall box. Then it happened to my cloud server. Then...

Feels good doesn't it.

It feels good not tossing out old hardware; old hardware, with a little
bit of maintenance here and there seems to last longer.




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Re: Re: How far I've come...
By: poindexter FORTRAN to calcmandan on Sun Feb 26 2023 07:56 am

calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that would stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't break anything or have screws left over!

I know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago had the same problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall box. Then it happened to my cloud server. Then...

Feels good doesn't it.

It feels good not tossing out old hardware; old hardware, with a little
bit of maintenance here and there seems to last longer.

more energy consumption. it's better to get rid of the old shit
and slim it all down.
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Re: Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 2023 06:46 pm

more energy consumption. it's better to get rid of the old shit
and slim it all down.

You'd be surprised sometimes.

If your computers work under medium to heavy load, there is a point past which it makes a lot of sense to ditch old hardware and replace it with new one. However, under lightweight load, it would take ages to save enough power to justify replacing an old computer worth 40 bucks for one worth 200.

Something similar happens with incandescent bulbs. If you don't use the lighbulb that much, it does not make sense to replace it with a low-cunsuption lightsource. You won't recoup the cost of switching with the power savings.

Specially if you are $me and have solar electricity for 96% of the year XD

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Re: Re: How far I've come...
By: Arelor to MRO on Mon Feb 27 2023 09:19 am

Re: Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 2023 06:46 pm

more energy consumption. it's better to get rid of the old shit
and slim it all down.

You'd be surprised sometimes.

If your computers work under medium to heavy load, there is a point past which it makes a lot of sense to ditch old hardware and replace it with new one. However, under lightweight load, it would take ages to save enough power to justify replacing an old computer worth 40 bucks for one worth 200.

no i'm not surprised. i used to have a house full of computers running and now i have one in my bedroom and one running downstairs as a media center.

i have a killowat and i've seen the difference.

anyways, it's just better to get rid of that old shit. some people need to stop being fucking hoarders.
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Re: Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Feb 26 2023 06:46 pm

Re: Re: How far I've come...
By: poindexter FORTRAN to calcmandan on Sun Feb 26 2023 07:56 am

calcmandan wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Everything went back together, the fans are quieter, the fan that wo stop working momentarily is working normally, and I didn't break anything or have screws left over!

I know the feeling, my old workhorse laptop from twelve years ago ha the same problem with the CPU fan. Then it happened to my firewall b Then it happened to my cloud server. Then...

Feels good doesn't it.

It feels good not tossing out old hardware; old hardware, with a little bit of maintenance here and there seems to last longer.

more energy consumption. it's better to get rid of the old shit
and slim it all down.

I've invested in a few single board pc's before the Pi supply dried up, and swapped out some old Pentium 4's for Arm cpu's.

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On 2023-01-28, Arelor <PALANT!Arelor@vert.synchro.net> wrote:

Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pm

I don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.

Pretty much this.

China used to be the laughting stock of the world, selling cheap junk which was
good for barely anything. They aren't anymore.

So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry to produce
merchandise up to European and American standards that at some point they realized they could use that infrastructure and experience to produce it themselves. If an European clock manufacturer funds a clock factory in china, and sends an European foreman to oversee the production of watches, you will find that factory produces watches under a Chinesse brand when the foreman is not looking, using European standards and the toolchains the Europeans bought for them. It happens in Morocco all the time too.

A contruction engineer I know used to warn us in the early 2010s. "Chinesse construction steel is no longer total junk. They are starting to show up with quality stuff."

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Japan was like that in the 60-70's. Cheap copies everywhere, and in the 80's they managed to surpass the West in a lot of places.

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Re: Re: How far I've come...
By: anthk to All on Thu Jul 06 2023 08:59 am

On 2023-01-28, Arelor <PALANT!Arelor@vert.synchro.net> wrote:

Re: How far I've come...
By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Thu Jan 26 2023 08:47 pm

I don't think we're at the point where china makes cheap junk.

Pretty much this.

China used to be the laughting stock of the world, selling cheap junk whic good for barely anything. They aren't anymore.

So many foreigner countries helped the Chinesse build their industry to pr merchandise up to European and American standards that at some point they realized they could use that infrastructure and experience to produce it themselves. If an European clock manufacturer funds a clock factory in chi and sends an European foreman to oversee the production of watches, you wi find that factory produces watches under a Chinesse brand when the foreman not looking, using European standards and the toolchains the Europeans bou for them. It happens in Morocco all the time too.

A contruction engineer I know used to warn us in the early 2010s. "Chiness construction steel is no longer total junk. They are starting to show up w quality stuff."

--
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---
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Japan was like that in the 60-70's. Cheap copies everywhere, and in the 80's they managed to surpass the West in a lot of places.

The Japanese mindset towards product development ran off a different schedule than Western mindset regarding time tables. A product may have been rejected in the US because it would 5 years to go from concept to finished project. A Japanese company would be thinking about longer term profitability and think
5 years not being that long to wait.

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