On 07/02/2024 19:44, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2024 09:27:44 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham wrote:
I know nothing of arstechnica but I am very aware that the Guardian like >>> the BBC is not interested in the truth at all.
Did you hear this from some random loony on Facebook?
No, its an opinion framed by reading/listening to them.
There is an apocryphal statement allegedly made by I think Mark Twain,
more or less along the lines that :
"One can rely on the accuracy of newspapers except in a subject one has >direct and comprehensive knowledge of".
On 07 Feb 2024 at 23:36:18 GMT, "Scott Alfter" <Scott Alfter> wrote:
In article <uq0s9j$1jgqa$3@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2024 16:26:23 GMT, Scott Alfter wrote:
In article <upvb9o$1b4u9$1@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
It’s worked really well in Australia. That’s what scares the US gun >>>>> nuts.
By "worked really well," you meant to say that crime has skyrocketed,
right?
I mean that mass shootings have become something of a rarity in Australia >>> now. Whereas they are a weekly occurrence in the USA.
Hardly, at least not in the civilized parts of the country. Somewhere like >> Chicago or DC (to pick a couple)? They're getting what they voted for, good >> and hard, and them doing more of the same isn't going to improve their lot.
I assume you refer to the "defunding of the police"?
I think the effective accurate range of a handgun is probably little
more than 5 meters, and in the hands of the average person, not even that.
In article <uq289f$1tfdb$7@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I think the effective accurate range of a handgun is probably little
more than 5 meters, and in the hands of the average person, not even that.
I usually set up man-sized silhouette targets 7-10 yards out when shooting handguns. It's not that difficult to keep most of your hits within the silhouette, even though I don't practice nearly as much as I should.
In article <uq0miv$1iire$1@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2024 09:27:44 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham wrote:
I know nothing of arstechnica but I am very aware that the Guardian
like the BBC is not interested in the truth at all.
Did you hear this from some random loony on Facebook?
I don't have a Facebook account.
My opinion was formed by own experiences and observations.
Both have blatantly unconstitutional gun-control regimes in place...the
sort of laws that the hoplophobes assert without evidence would reduce
crime.
On Thu, 08 Feb 2024 08:55:22 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uq0miv$1iire$1@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2024 09:27:44 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham wrote:
I know nothing of arstechnica but I am very aware that the
Guardian like the BBC is not interested in the truth at all.
Did you hear this from some random loony on Facebook?
I don't have a Facebook account.
My opinion was formed by own experiences and observations.
Does that mean you have actually researched Elon Musk?
Or are you relying on other second-hand accounts of him,
that you, for some reason, deem more reliable than these?
I read what he posts and see what he blocks and what he doesn't.
He's not perfect but seems to be far more free speech than any of
the other major platforms. That's a big plus for me.
People who wish to stop others speaking are afraid of what they may
say. If you have truth on your side, why would someone else's words
bother you? Liars like to crush free speech and will be on the wrong
side of history, never been a good sensor, they're evil. A few
exceptions, incitement, porn etc.
How much disinformation should we tolerate in the interests of free
speech?
In article <uq4b07$2fjnu$6@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Feb 2024 17:06:21 GMT, Scott Alfter wrote:
Both have blatantly unconstitutional gun-control regimes in place...the
sort of laws that the hoplophobes assert without evidence would reduce
crime.
It worked in Australia. The secret is, it’s not enough to outlaw the
assault-style weapons, you also need to have a buyback scheme to force
them out of circulation.
"Buybacks" are nothing of the sort. The government can't "buy back" that which it never owned. Be honest and call it what it is: confiscation, usually at nowhere near what the firearms involved are worth.
On Thu, 08 Feb 2024 17:06:21 GMT, Scott Alfter wrote:
Both have blatantly unconstitutional gun-control regimes in place...the
sort of laws that the hoplophobes assert without evidence would reduce
crime.
It worked in Australia. The secret is, it’s not enough to outlaw the >assault-style weapons, you also need to have a buyback scheme to force
them out of circulation.
nowhere near what the firearms involved are worth.
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
I read what he posts and see what he blocks and what he
doesn't.
There is an old Latin quote. "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"?
It means "Who will guard the guardians?".
The cool thing about having to justify having things is that,
fundamentally, people does not need much.
"Buybacks" are nothing of the sort. The government can't "buy back" that which it never owned. Be honest and call it what it is: confiscation, usually at nowhere near what the firearms involved are worth.
The cool thing about having to justify having things is that, fundamentally, people does not need much.
You could keep a guy trapped in a hole and feed him with a nasograstric tube, and if he asked for anything we could deny it to him based on the assumption he
already has everything he needs in the hole you provided to him.
On 12 Feb 2024 19:10:53 GMT
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any
justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
Questionable justification for them to be in any hands IMHO.
On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 13:51:29 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
There is an old Latin quote. "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"?
It means "Who will guard the guardians?".
This is why we have things like “checks and balances” and “rule of law”,
to govern how we live together with others who may disagree with us, in peace.
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
On 12 Feb 2024 at 18:50:58 GMT, "Scott Alfter" <Scott Alfter> wrote:
In article <uq4b07$2fjnu$6@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Feb 2024 17:06:21 GMT, Scott Alfter wrote:
Both have blatantly unconstitutional gun-control regimes in place...the >>>> sort of laws that the hoplophobes assert without evidence would reduce >>>> crime.
It worked in Australia. The secret is, it’s not enough to outlaw the
assault-style weapons, you also need to have a buyback scheme to force
them out of circulation.
"Buybacks" are nothing of the sort. The government can't "buy back" that
which it never owned. Be honest and call it what it is: confiscation,
usually at nowhere near what the firearms involved are worth.
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 09:45:56 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham wrote:
I read what he posts and see what he blocks and what he
doesn't.
And yet when I give you information about that, you somehow
disbelieve it.
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
As I've learnt that pretty much all media lies continuously in order
to subvert public opinion I'm sceptical to say the least.
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Since then, drip by drip so much of that misinformation turns out to
be true.
Fancy that.
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
On 12/02/2024 20:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On 12 Feb 2024 19:10:53 GMT
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any
justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
Questionable justification for them to be in any hands IMHO.
I think what is happening in Ukraine fully justifies their existence and
use. Because if the other side has them, you are going to be walked all
over unless you have them, too.
Unless you have access to the 'weapon shops of Isher' :-)
Example: Covid was real, and it was and still is a killer. But was
lockdown the appropriate reaction? Who made money selling masks whose
effect seems mainly symbolic? And just why was the 'free' vaccine deemed ineffective or unsafe and the massively profit making ones deemed de rigeur?
On 12/02/2024 19:10, TimS wrote:
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
The problem with that, is where do you draw the line?
Is this a sensible place to draw the line?
And whilst gangland shootings may be scarce, our middle eastern friends
have brought with them a culture of knives, the larger and more vicious
the better.
On 12/02/2024 20:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On 12 Feb 2024 19:10:53 GMT
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any
justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
Questionable justification for them to be in any hands IMHO.
I think what is happening in Ukraine fully justifies their existence and
use. Because if the other side has them, you are going to be walked all
over unless you have them, too.
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:29:08 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 12/02/2024 20:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On 12 Feb 2024 19:10:53 GMT
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any
justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
Questionable justification for them to be in any hands IMHO.
I think what is happening in Ukraine fully justifies their existence and
use. Because if the other side has them, you are going to be walked all
Yes that's always the justification - "the bad guys have them",
therein lies the problem.
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:29:08 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 12/02/2024 20:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On 12 Feb 2024 19:10:53 GMT
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any
justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
Questionable justification for them to be in any hands IMHO.
I think what is happening in Ukraine fully justifies their existence and
use. Because if the other side has them, you are going to be walked all
Yes that's always the justification - "the bad guys have them",
therein lies the problem.
over unless you have them, too.
The ideal (almost certainly unreachable) state is that nobody has
them. I can't help feeling that there should be a better solution to some people having them than everyone having them - because that's not a
solution.
On 13 Feb 2024 at 09:50:25 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Well, you figure it out. We were told the vaccines were coming, and they
did, and I've taken every one that has since been offered, and guess
what, I've never had Covid. Meanwhile we were also told that the vaccines didn't work, caused millions of fatalities, were the spawn of Satan, were
an attempt to control us all with microchips, etc.
So no prizes for guessing which viewpoint I support.
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Since then, drip by drip so much of that misinformation turns out to
be true.
Fancy that.
On 13 Feb 2024 at 12:14:57 GMT, "Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
The ideal (almost certainly unreachable) state is that nobody has
them. I can't help feeling that there should be a better solution to
some people having them than everyone having them - because that's not a solution.
Sure it's a solution. You may not like it, but it's a solution. All you're doing is belling the cat.
On 13 Feb 2024 at 09:50:25 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the
truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Well, you figure it out.
We were told the vaccines were coming, and they did,
and I've taken every one that has since been offered, and guess
what, I've never had Covid.
Meanwhile we were also told that the vaccines didn't work,
caused millions of fatalities,
were the spawn of Satan, were an attempt to control us all with
microchips, etc.
So no prizes for guessing which viewpoint I support.
On 13 Feb 2024 at 09:50:25 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Well, you figure it out. We were told the vaccines were coming, and they did, and I've taken every one that has since been offered, and guess what, I've never had Covid. Meanwhile we were also told that the vaccines didn't work, caused millions of fatalities, were the spawn of Satan, were an attempt to control us all with microchips, etc.
So no prizes for guessing which viewpoint I support.
Certainly I can't think of anyone I know that hasn't had covid, not
one. A good proportion have had it twice and some 3 times. I don't
know anyone who didn't have the first 3 jabs at least.
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work,
Well I'm very sure they do not prevent transmission.
Bob.
On 13 Feb 2024 at 12:14:57 GMT, "Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:29:08 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 12/02/2024 20:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On 12 Feb 2024 19:10:53 GMT
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any >>>>> justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
Questionable justification for them to be in any hands IMHO.
I think what is happening in Ukraine fully justifies their existence and >>> use. Because if the other side has them, you are going to be walked all
Yes that's always the justification - "the bad guys have them",
therein lies the problem.
It's usually a single bad guy. WW2 only happened because of Adolf, Ukraine only happened because of Putin. If we get trouble in the Pacific, it will be because of Xi.
It only takes one to make war; it takes two to make peace. After 1991, we all thought Russia was on a peaceful/democratic trajectory, and we were encouraged
by the Chinese changing leaders every ten years. Thats all gone by the board now, and we have to adapt accordingly, just as we eventually did in the 1930s.
On 12 Feb 2024 at 18:50:58 GMT, "Scott Alfter" <Scott Alfter> wrote:
"Buybacks" are nothing of the sort. The government can't "buy back" that
which it never owned. Be honest and call it what it is: confiscation,
usually at nowhere near what the firearms involved are worth.
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any >justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
Vaccinations certainly did work,
On 13/02/2024 15:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work,
Well I'm very sure they do not prevent transmission.
Bob.
They reduce the likelihood of onward transmission.
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Since then, drip by drip so much of that misinformation turns out to
be true.
In article <5b31fc9be8bob@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the
truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Since then, drip by drip so much of that misinformation turns out
to be true.
...and much of what governments were spewing out proved to be total
bullshit. Probably the worst offender in this regard was Jacinda
Ardern insisting that the Kiwis only trust her misbegotten regime,
but there was plenty of authoritarian big-government nonsense to go
around.
Vaccinations certainly did work
but we got the ones Big Pharma made the most cash out of...
Anthony Fauci also made a killing
They also "worked" to give big-government authoritarians their wet
dream of near-absolute control over society.
In article <FNMyN.223034$yEgf.108859@fx09.iad>,
Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
Probably the worst offender in this regard was Jacinda
Ardern insisting that the Kiwis only trust her misbegotten regime,
but there was plenty of authoritarian big-government nonsense to go
around.
Yes, indeed fully agree and she is awful.
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work
For certain values of "work" that have little to do with your health...see below.
but we got the ones Big Pharma made the most cash out of...
Absolutely. They "worked" to line the pockets of Pfizer and Moderna execs. Anthony Fauci also made a killing off of royalties regarding the poison jabs...never mind that his government paycheck was already bigger than the President's.
They also "worked" to give big-government authoritarians their wet dream of near-absolute control over society.
In article <uqg36u$258bd$1@dont-email.me>,
mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 15:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work,
Well I'm very sure they do not prevent transmission.
Bob.
They reduce the likelihood of onward transmission.
That's a new one, where did you get that from?
Do I take that as a tacit admission that vaccines don't protect you
from infection? Have we also dropped the notion that it helps if you
get infected?
So beforehand we were told - asymptomatic transmission, very
important, anyone, even perfectly well people can give you covid but
now, even people who are ill and infected are safer because of the
vaccine?
Do people cough, sneeze and breath less ?
Why then hasn't covid stopped?
My friends wife had covid for at least the second time a month ago.
My cousin who honestly is a GP somewhere in the Monmouthshire/Bristol
border has just had it for the first time. Fully jabbed of course.
I'll quote what she wrote...
Cousin wrote"
So sorry to be late replying .
I have had Covid for the last week and have actually felt quite
poorly . It‘s amazing that I have managed to dodge it for so long -
my first Covid of the pandemic. Thinking that I‘ve had all the
vaccinations offered and peoples comments that‘s it‘s ‘ like a bad
cold now lulled me into complacency.
I am starting to improve but along the way I have felt pretty unwell, breathless and lost my sense taste / smell .
I have had to cancel 3 days of work which I hate as I don‘t like
admitting illness .
To someone who loves their food and adores eating experiences‘ I am going to be mighty upset if the sense of taste doesn‘t come back . Obviously I can‘t moan too much as being left on ITU on a ventilator
is much worse !!
Anyway I do feel I‘ve turned a bit of a corner today but (husband)
has started sniffing and sneezing Œ..Oh dear .
" end quote.
I've seen no evidence vaccines do much good but they do do harm.
Bob.
In article <FcNyN.284157$Ama9.135706@fx12.iad>,
Scott Alfter <scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us> wrote:
Anthony Fauci also made a killing
And allegedly funding 'gain of function' work on viruses at the Wuhan
lab.
They also "worked" to give big-government authoritarians their wet
dream of near-absolute control over society.
Some people in governments and in society revealed themselves as
ruthless authoritarian bullies. I understood for the first time some
of what happened to the German people in the early 1930s. How on
mass, people lost it and became an uncivilised mob.
Bob.
On 13/02/2024 16:26, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqg36u$258bd$1@dont-email.me>,
mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 15:32, Bob Latham wrote:
Do I take that as a tacit admission that vaccines don't protect
you from infection? Have we also dropped the notion that it helps
if you get infected?
Oh dear. We have an ArtStudent mind. Stuck in Boolean logic.
You are asking an ArtStudent question.
The scientific questions is *how much* do vaccines reduce the risk
of infection, and the severity of the subsequent disease, and the
answer is, shitloads.
Anyone of any minor intelligence who actually thinks about it,
understands that. Vaccines increase natural immunity. It takes more
of someone else's virus load to make you sick and you wont get
*as* sick.
So leave you stupid 'is it perfect?, if not it doesn't work' logic
at home.
Do people cough, sneeze and breath less ?
Yes, they cough, sneeze and breath less virus load.
Why then hasn't covid stopped?
It *has* stopped. Killing people.
Vaccines have brought it down to flu level - a bad week maybe in
bed with painkillers, and that's it. Not a life threatening
infection with people gasping for breath and dying.
I suffer when my blood oxygen goes below 90%, which it has done at
times when I was being loaded into an ambulance.
The [paramedics said 'its when its down at 50% an te patient is
blue and gasping for breath, that we put on the blue lights and
sirens' I saidf'whgen does that happen?'
'Covid'.
Almaist everybody has had it by now
Lucky cousin. Without vaccinations she would probably be dead.
I've seen no evidence vaccines do much good but they do do harm.
The evidence is that the episode your cousin has is now as bad as
it gets.
If you cant see that, don't get jabbed and die in a respirator
gasping for breath, like so many others have.
On 13/02/2024 12:41, TimS wrote:
On 13 Feb 2024 at 12:14:57 GMT, "Ahem A Rivet's Shot" <steveo@eircom.net>No. That is criminally naive. The reasons why Adolf, Putin and Xi became leaders are rooted in many other economic and geopolitical factors.
wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:29:08 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 12/02/2024 20:23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:Yes that's always the justification - "the bad guys have them",
On 12 Feb 2024 19:10:53 GMT
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any >>>>>> justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
Questionable justification for them to be in any hands IMHO.
I think what is happening in Ukraine fully justifies their existence and >>>> use. Because if the other side has them, you are going to be walked all >>>
therein lies the problem.
It's usually a single bad guy. WW2 only happened because of Adolf, Ukraine >> only happened because of Putin. If we get trouble in the Pacific, it will be >> because of Xi.
They were and are products of their time and place. Just like Donald
Trump is.
It only takes one to make war; it takes two to make peace. After 1991, we allPutin wont hand in his guns just because you do. That's all I am saying.
thought Russia was on a peaceful/democratic trajectory, and we were encouraged
by the Chinese changing leaders every ten years. Thats all gone by the board >> now, and we have to adapt accordingly, just as we eventually did in the 1930s.
In article <l313evF4k5pU1@mid.individual.net>,
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 13 Feb 2024 at 09:50:25 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the
truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Well, you figure it out.
I do remember a tremendous number of people demanding all sorts of
extreme actions against those that didn't want the vaccine. It opened
my eyes to how quickly normal people could become unhinged and
barbaric. People should be able to decide if they want the medication
or not, extreme pressure placed on people was disgusting.
video) the manufacturer Pfizer if I recall correctly, said that no
testing of transmission was ever done. There was never any basis for
the madness. Some have since apologised most have not, most notably
the unhinged media.
Certainly I can't think of anyone I know that hasn't had covid, not
one. A good proportion have had it twice and some 3 times. I don't
know anyone who didn't have the first 3 jabs at least.
I'm 90% sure that the vaccine does not affect transmission.
They *may* help if you get infected not seen enough data.
Vaccines have caused many people serious injury.
Masks even N95 masks are useless they're just theatre.
Asymptomatic transmission was never a serious factor, I will not
claim it didn't happen but for the most part it was propaganda from
the nudge units.
PCR testing in the UK used double the sensible levels of
amplification cycles. People who should know said you could find
anything in anyone with that level of amplification.
Remember the videos from China of people dropping dead at bus stops.
We were told the vaccines were coming, and they did,
Yes, remarkably quickly, too quickly.
My wife and I had the first 3 jabs. Had we known then what we think
we know now, including what happened to us, we would not have done so.
On 13/02/2024 15:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,They reduce the likelihood of onward transmission.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work,
Well I'm very sure they do not prevent transmission.
In article <l2v8ptFomvlU1@mid.individual.net>,
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 12 Feb 2024 at 18:50:58 GMT, "Scott Alfter" <Scott Alfter> wrote:
"Buybacks" are nothing of the sort. The government can't "buy back" that >>> which it never owned. Be honest and call it what it is: confiscation,
usually at nowhere near what the firearms involved are worth.
We don't actually give a flying fuck about that. There was never any
justification for these weapons to be in private hands anyway.
...and that is why you're a subject of your country, not a citizen.
The vaccines don't stop you getting infected, absolute fact !!
I've seen no evidence the vaccines improve your recovery.
It *may* do but I've seen zero evidence only conjecture and wishful
thinking by the guilty.
I've seen no evidence that it reduces transmission at all. The
manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
Perhaps you've forgotten , the virus mutated to a much milder forms
again and again, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Omicron.
The
manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
On 13 Feb 2024 at 21:32:57 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
The vaccines don't stop you getting infected, absolute fact !!
I've seen no evidence the vaccines improve your recovery.
It *may* do but I've seen zero evidence only conjecture and wishful
thinking by the guilty.
I've seen no evidence that it reduces transmission at all. The
manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
Perhaps you've forgotten , the virus mutated to a much milder forms
again and again, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Omicron.
Look, we know all this. Why d'ye keep trotting it out as if it's profound in some fashion?
a) vaccines prime your immune system. So if you do get it, covid won't be as bad as it would otherwise have been.
b) viruses mutate. Which is why I keep taking the jabs as they are offered. It's routine now: I get a message from the climic and I go there are they give
me a covid jab in one arm, and flu in the other, at the same time. This will now happen every winter. Prior to covid, I was getting the annual flu jab late
every year. Only had flu once in the last 20 years - and that was because that
particular jab was only goodd for 3 of the 4 strains going around, and I was unlucky.
c) Vaccines/transmission. Just because I'm vaccinated doesn't affect the virus
load someone coughs on me. What vaccination *does* affect is subsequent events. Which is what counts. So stop bleating that the manufacturers did no transmission tests. Why would they? Why would anyone expect them to?
On 13 Feb 2024 at 21:32:57 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
The vaccines don't stop you getting infected, absolute fact !!
I've seen no evidence the vaccines improve your recovery.
It *may* do but I've seen zero evidence only conjecture and wishful thinking by the guilty.
I've seen no evidence that it reduces transmission at all. The manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
Perhaps you've forgotten , the virus mutated to a much milder forms
again and again, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Omicron.
Look, we know all this. Why d'ye keep trotting it out as if it's
profound in some fashion?
a) vaccines prime your immune system. So if you do get it, covid
won't be as bad as it would otherwise have been.
b) viruses mutate. Which is why I keep taking the jabs as they are
offered. It's routine now: I get a message from the climic and I go
there are they give me a covid jab in one arm, and flu in the
other, at the same time. This will now happen every winter. Prior
to covid, I was getting the annual flu jab late every year. Only
had flu once in the last 20 years - and that was because that
particular jab was only goodd for 3 of the 4 strains going around,
and I was unlucky.
c) Vaccines/transmission. Just because I'm vaccinated doesn't
affect the virus load someone coughs on me. What vaccination *does*
affect is subsequent events.
Which is what counts. So stop bleating that the manufacturers did
no transmission tests. Why would they? Why would anyone expect them
to?
On 13/02/2024 21:32, Bob Latham wrote:
The
manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
Straw-man. Some manufacturers said that they did no testing on
transmission as they were not required to do such testing for
approval. They had plenty of other tests to perform for approval
which were performed.
On 13 Feb 2024 at 15:51:56 GMT, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 15:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,They reduce the likelihood of onward transmission.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work,
Well I'm very sure they do not prevent transmission.
This makes much more sense.
A vaccinated person who contracts the virus (normally with reduced
effects) will normally have coughs and sneezes with a reduced viral
payload compared to a non-vaccinated person. This is how transmission is reduced by vaccination. The word being reduced not eliminated.
I've had plenty of vaccinations in my life I'm not anti-vax. I had 3
covid jabs. However, the experimental vaccine has done damage to a
lot of people and I've not seen any data which proves it did anything
good. It may have done but I've not seen it.
As I said, a careful mixture of truth and bullshit.
Vaccinations certainly did work, but we got the ones Big Pharma made the
most cash out of...
Right so there is a video that shows presidents, prime ministers
doctors and professors all claiming they didn't say it stopped you
getting covid. Then the video goes on to show them all saying exactly
that.
On 13 Feb 2024 at 15:13:13 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <l313evF4k5pU1@mid.individual.net>,
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 13 Feb 2024 at 09:50:25 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
In article <uqf4j8$1vsp3$5@dont-email.me>,
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
Online misinformation is a whole new can of worms.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the
truth?
During covid we were continuously told this and that were
"misinformation" or a conspiracy theory. Someone decided.
Well, you figure it out.
I do remember a tremendous number of people demanding all sorts
of extreme actions against those that didn't want the vaccine. It
opened my eyes to how quickly normal people could become unhinged
and barbaric. People should be able to decide if they want the
medication or not, extreme pressure placed on people was
disgusting.
Remember Typhoid Mary. And then there was the MMR nonsense, as a
result of which measles is now on the increase.
video) the manufacturer Pfizer if I recall correctly, said that
no testing of transmission was ever done. There was never any
basis for the madness. Some have since apologised most have not,
most notably the unhinged media.
Why would you test transmission, for a vaccine? It would never
occur to me for a moment to imagine that a vaccine would affect
transmission.
What a vaccine does is prime your immune system so
that, when you get infected, you beat off the infection
double-quick,
or at any rate only have a low-grade infection.
Certainly I can't think of anyone I know that hasn't had covid,
not one. A good proportion have had it twice and some 3 times. I
don't know anyone who didn't have the first 3 jabs at least.
Yes, I know a number of people who've had it more than once.
I'm 90% sure that the vaccine does not affect transmission.
That is so obvs I can't even believe people might dicsuss it.
They *may* help if you get infected not seen enough data.
Vaccines have caused many people serious injury.
Here you are exaggerating.
Masks even N95 masks are useless they're just theatre.
Asymptomatic transmission was never a serious factor, I will not
claim it didn't happen but for the most part it was propaganda
from the nudge units.
PCR testing in the UK used double the sensible levels of
amplification cycles. People who should know said you could find
anything in anyone with that level of amplification.
Remember the videos from China of people dropping dead at bus
stops.
I don't waste time looking at random internet videos, so, no.
A vaccinated person who contracts the virus (normally with reduced
effects) will normally have coughs and sneezes with a reduced viral
payload compared to a non-vaccinated person. This is how
transmission is reduced by vaccination. The word being reduced not eliminated.
In the UK a handgun *of any sort* is illegal outside of competition use,
the police, or the military, it having been deemed that their *only*
valid use is killing people.
I know that. But instead of being warmongers they might have merely been strong leaders for their countries. Unluckily for the world, they *are/were* warmongers, when there was no need. And *that* is what we have to guard against and prepare for.
b) viruses mutate. Which is why I keep taking the jabs as they are offered. It's routine now: I get a message from the climic and I go there are they gi me a covid jab in one arm, and flu in the other, at the same time. This will now happen every winter. Prior to covid, I was getting the annual flu jab la every year. Only had flu once in the last 20 years - and that was because th particular jab was only goodd for 3 of the 4 strains going around, and I was unlucky.
c) Vaccines/transmission. Just because I'm vaccinated doesn't affect the vir load someone coughs on me. What vaccination *does* affect is subsequent events. Which is what counts. So stop bleating that the manufacturers did no transmission tests. Why would they? Why would anyone expect them to?
On 13/02/2024 21:32, Bob Latham wrote:
Right so there is a video that shows presidents, prime ministers
doctors and professors all claiming they didn't say it stopped you
getting covid. Then the video goes on to show them all saying exactly
that.
Again, you are confusing facts with narratives.
And expecting politicians to tell the complicated truth, which at
that point they don't even know, rather than a simple narrative
they think the plebs will understand.
You are inferring far too much from human weakness. And expecting
far too much from 'experts'
I don't know what you are actually referring too, but at leats in
my personal memory all I saw was a lot of politicians in a panic,
and a lot of epidemioligsts with some extremely sketchy models,
all of which said (in the case of the UK), that if something
wasn't done, deaths were likely to exceed 50,000, and the peak
rate of the sperad would completely overwhelm the hospitals.
And expecting politicians to tell the complicated truth, which at that
point they don't even know, rather than a simple narrative they think
the plebs will understand.
In article <uqhtjj$2ijm2$1@dont-email.me>,
mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
A vaccinated person who contracts the virus (normally with reduced
effects) will normally have coughs and sneezes with a reduced viral
payload compared to a non-vaccinated person. This is how
transmission is reduced by vaccination. The word being reduced not
eliminated.
I hope that is true.
Evidence?
Yes that would be fine but authorities the world over made claims you
don't get covid if you're vaccinated.
In article <uqhtnu$2ijm2$2@dont-email.me>,
mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 21:32, Bob Latham wrote:
The
manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
Straw-man. Some manufacturers said that they did no testing on
transmission as they were not required to do such testing for
approval. They had plenty of other tests to perform for approval
which were performed.
Yes that would be fine but authorities the world over made claims you
don't get covid if you're vaccinated. then had to make video
statements insisting they never said any such thing.
Bob.
In article <l32ar3FbjbfU2@mid.individual.net>,
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 13 Feb 2024 at 15:51:56 GMT, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 15:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,They reduce the likelihood of onward transmission.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work,
Well I'm very sure they do not prevent transmission.
This makes much more sense.
Evidence?
Because that was the claim at the time. Getting vaccinated prevents
you getting covid. Do I really have to spend time finding the famous
video of this?
On 13/02/2024 15:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
As I said, a careful mixture of truth and bullshit.
Vaccinations certainly did work, but we got the ones Big Pharma made
the most cash out of...
Speak for yourself, I was given Vaxzevria. That was all I had before I
caught Covid the first time. I had the other ones later, but that was probably a mistake.
I would commend AstraZeneca for trying to offer the vaccine cheaply.
On 14/02/2024 10:28, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqhtnu$2ijm2$2@dont-email.me>,
mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 21:32, Bob Latham wrote:
The
manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
Straw-man. Some manufacturers said that they did no testing on
transmission as they were not required to do such testing for
approval. They had plenty of other tests to perform for approval
which were performed.
Yes that would be fine but authorities the world over made claims
you don't get covid if you're vaccinated. then had to make video
statements insisting they never said any such thing.
You keep saying that. I don't recall any in my own experience.
Didn't Donald Trump tell you to drink bleach or something?
And when did you start to believe in 'authorities' unquestioningly
anyway?
I gave up on that at the age of around 7...
Surely you remember that we had professors of serious note like
Sunetra Gupta who were completely shut out of the conversation
because politicians had decided what the truth was going to be and
only allowed doctors who agreed with the narrative to speak. Perhaps
you were unaware of the group that formed of viral experts from
across the globe offering an alternative view which was shut out.
The models were from that well known Prof Neil Ferguson otherwise
know as pants down because he didn't believe his own model when it
came to his sexual desires and broke the rules.
On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 10:37:48 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
And expecting politicians to tell the complicated truth, which at that
point they don't even know, rather than a simple narrative they think
the plebs will understand.
It has to be one that *they* all understand *and* think they can
sell to their voters.
Re: Re: Google Groups
By: TimS to tnp@invalid.invalid on Tue Feb 13 2024 10:54 pm
> I know that. But instead of being warmongers they might have merely been
> strong leaders for their countries. Unluckily for the world, they *are/were*
> warmongers, when there was no need. And *that* is what we have to guard
> against and prepare for.
I don't think Xi is such a big warmonger since he is taking heavy profits from
the opposite approach - opening to trade and sending Chinesse workforce to develop poor countries to bring them into the Chinesse sphere of influence. I think his position regarding Taiwan is macho posturing. Putin has also a non-weak (I won't say "strong") case that the NATO is making open advances torward Russian interests and that Russian efforts to collaborate with NATO against common enemies have not been welcome.
Re: Re: Google Groups
By: The Natural Philosopher to TimS on Tue Feb 13 2024 09:25 am
> In the UK a handgun *of any sort* is illegal outside of competition use,
> the police, or the military, it having been deemed that their *only*
> valid use is killing people.
>
This irks me the wrong way because if you have a weapon licensed as a sporting
gun, and a truck runs a cow over in your village, you cannot put the dying cow
down humanely because you get charged with unlawful weapon posesion (ie. you have a non-sporting gun now, and haven't got a non-sporting gun license).
And then they also charge you with animal cruelty on top of that.
Fuck Spain.
In article <uqia43$2klrs$2@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/02/2024 10:28, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqhtnu$2ijm2$2@dont-email.me>,
mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 21:32, Bob Latham wrote:
The
manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
Straw-man. Some manufacturers said that they did no testing on
transmission as they were not required to do such testing for
approval. They had plenty of other tests to perform for approval
which were performed.
Yes that would be fine but authorities the world over made claims
you don't get covid if you're vaccinated. then had to make video
statements insisting they never said any such thing.
You keep saying that. I don't recall any in my own experience.
I can't drop my hand on the video showing a host of world leaders
doing this at the moment, it may not still be available.
As it happened last night on GB News this came up. I wasn't watching
it but it's linked from my twitter feed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT-sKFXgiBk
Here Nigel Farage confirms the same thing. Look around 46.00 minutes
mark.
Didn't Donald Trump tell you to drink bleach or something?
Don't be silly.
And when did you start to believe in 'authorities' unquestioningly
anyway?
I gave up on that at the age of around 7...
Exactly my point, the media and leaders as always LIED.
Bob.
In article <uqi55t$2jrmq$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 21:32, Bob Latham wrote:
Right so there is a video that shows presidents, prime ministers
doctors and professors all claiming they didn't say it stopped you
getting covid. Then the video goes on to show them all saying exactly
that.
Again, you are confusing facts with narratives.
And expecting politicians to tell the complicated truth, which at
that point they don't even know, rather than a simple narrative
they think the plebs will understand.
You are inferring far too much from human weakness. And expecting
far too much from 'experts'
I don't know what you are actually referring too, but at leats in
my personal memory all I saw was a lot of politicians in a panic,
and a lot of epidemioligsts with some extremely sketchy models,
all of which said (in the case of the UK), that if something
wasn't done, deaths were likely to exceed 50,000, and the peak
rate of the sperad would completely overwhelm the hospitals.
Of all the people to write something like that you were the last I
expected. I know you are aware that main stream media pushes
propaganda not truth, I know you are.
Surely you remember that we had professors of serious note like
Sunetra Gupta who were completely shut out of the conversation
because politicians had decided what the truth was going to be and
only allowed doctors who agreed with the narrative to speak. Perhaps
you were unaware of the group that formed of viral experts from
across the globe offering an alternative view which was shut out.
The models were from that well known Prof Neil Ferguson otherwise
know as pants down because he didn't believe his own model when it
came to his sexual desires and broke the rules.
This man is and was at the time notorious for massive exaggeration of
deaths from every virus that got near us. He had form for this kind
of nonsense and then some. He was always massively WRONG. But his
ridiculous models were very useful for the narrative.
We both know from ACC how models only reflect the opinion or desire
of their creator, they are propaganda tools, nothing more.
You also seem unaware that many deaths attributed to covid were
really from other things like the end of life drug, I'd have to look
the name given to many elderly in care homes. Or that ventilators
were in themselves the cause of deaths.
But congratulations. I've never seen such an expert job of air
brushing inconvenient truths.
Surprisingly you too seem to be a victim of the media.
No point in arguing further.
Bob.
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work,
Well I'm very sure they do not prevent transmission.
Bob.
On 14/02/2024 11:42, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 10:37:48 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
And expecting politicians to tell the complicated truth, which at that
point they don't even know, rather than a simple narrative they think
the plebs will understand.
It has to be one that *they* all understand *and* think they can
sell to their voters.
Indeed so.
But the staggering lack of STEM graduates in politics has to be allowed
for. They are all ArtStudents™ to a man. And they treat the rest
On 14/02/2024 12:58, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqia43$2klrs$2@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/02/2024 10:28, Bob Latham wrote:As it happened last night on GB News this came up. I wasn't
watching it but it's linked from my twitter feed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT-sKFXgiBk
Here Nigel Farage confirms the same thing. Look around 46.00
minutes mark.
I didn't see him engaged in anything of the sort. Please indicate
at what minute he did so.
Didn't Donald Trump tell you to drink bleach or something?
Don't be silly.
https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/13/fact-check-did-trump-tell-people-to-drink-bleach-to-kill-coronavirus/113754708/
And when did you start to believe in 'authorities'
unquestioningly anyway?
I gave up on that at the age of around 7...
Exactly my point, the media and leaders as always LIED.
That is not the same thing. It is your lack of questioning that
bothers me.
You jump to conclusions.
I prefer to take a moire measured approach and arrive at 'as far as
I know' and not claim it as ultimate truth.
On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 13:23:38 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/02/2024 11:42, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 10:37:48 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
And expecting politicians to tell the complicated truth, which at that >>>> point they don't even know, rather than a simple narrative they think >>>> the plebs will understand.
It has to be one that *they* all understand *and* think they can
sell to their voters.
Indeed so.
But the staggering lack of STEM graduates in politics has to be allowed
for. They are all ArtStudents™ to a man. And they treat the rest
I think you are being unfair to ArtStudents™ these folks tended to study things like economics and politics, nothing as tangible and sane as art.
In article <l32btrFbpo9U1@mid.individual.net>,
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 13 Feb 2024 at 21:32:57 GMT, "Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
The vaccines don't stop you getting infected, absolute fact !!
I've seen no evidence the vaccines improve your recovery.
It *may* do but I've seen zero evidence only conjecture and wishful
thinking by the guilty.
I've seen no evidence that it reduces transmission at all. The
manufacturers have admitted that no testing on transmission was done.
Perhaps you've forgotten , the virus mutated to a much milder forms
again and again, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Omicron.
Look, we know all this. Why d'ye keep trotting it out as if it's
profound in some fashion?
I spoke of it in one post, never before. Your comment that I'm
trotting it out suggests you don't like the truth.
a) vaccines prime your immune system. So if you do get it, covid
won't be as bad as it would otherwise have been.
I've had plenty of vaccinations in my life I'm not anti-vax. I had 3
covid jabs. However, the experimental vaccine has done damage to a
lot of people and I've not seen any data which proves it did anything
good. It may have done but I've not seen it.
Why would you test transmission, for a vaccine? It would never
occur to me for a moment to imagine that a vaccine would affect
transmission.
Because that was the claim at the time. Getting vaccinated prevents
you getting covid. Do I really have to spend time finding the famous
video of this?
On 14/02/2024 12:58, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqia43$2klrs$2@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/02/2024 10:28, Bob Latham wrote:As it happened last night on GB News this came up. I wasn't
watching it but it's linked from my twitter feed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT-sKFXgiBk
Here Nigel Farage confirms the same thing. Look around 46.00
minutes mark.
I didn't see him engaged in anything of the sort. Please indicate
at what minute he did so.
Didn't Donald Trump tell you to drink bleach or something?
Don't be silly.
https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/13/fact-check-did-trump-tell-people-to-drink-bleach-to-kill-coronavirus/113754708/
And when did you start to believe in 'authorities'
unquestioningly anyway?
I gave up on that at the age of around 7...
Exactly my point, the media and leaders as always LIED.
That is not the same thing. It is your lack of questioning that
bothers me.
You jump to conclusions.
I prefer to take a moire measured approach and arrive at 'as far as
I know' and not claim it as ultimate truth.
In article <l32ar3FbjbfU2@mid.individual.net>,
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
On 13 Feb 2024 at 15:51:56 GMT, "mm0fmf" <none@invalid.com> wrote:
On 13/02/2024 15:32, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqg11c$24ou7$1@dont-email.me>,They reduce the likelihood of onward transmission.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work,
Well I'm very sure they do not prevent transmission.
This makes much more sense.
Evidence?
I've seen none.
I have seen plenty of evidence of vaccine damage.
In article <uqhtjj$2ijm2$1@dont-email.me>,
mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:
A vaccinated person who contracts the virus (normally with reduced
effects) will normally have coughs and sneezes with a reduced viral
payload compared to a non-vaccinated person. This is how
transmission is reduced by vaccination. The word being reduced not
eliminated.
I hope that is true.
Evidence?
Exactly my point, the media and leaders as always LIED.
or at any rate only have a low-grade infection.
I don't think I've seen that before covid.
They *may* help if you get infected not seen enough data.
Vaccines have caused many people serious injury.
Here you are exaggerating.
I don't think so. I know Main Stream Media is suppressing this
massively and Parliament will not listen or debate it. It's like
they're frightened of a can of worms. However, more and more mps are listening.
When we were engineering students, there were only engineers and art students. It was a standing joke.
I'm certain for example that the drive to push this experimental
vaccine into primary school children
who are in no danger from covid
at all was insane. Especially when we had NO long term safety data.
You appear to be a victim of the lying media, try reading something
not MSM vetted.
And there is still no justification for these weapons to be in private hands.
On 14/02/2024 11:39, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqi55t$2jrmq$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Surely you remember that we had professors of serious note like
Sunetra Gupta who were completely shut out of the conversation
because politicians had decided what the truth was going to be
and only allowed doctors who agreed with the narrative to speak.
Perhaps you were unaware of the group that formed of viral
experts from across the globe offering an alternative view which
was shut out.
If they were shut out, how could I become aware?.
Look, I really wasn't that *interested*.
There are always groups of people with views that they hope will
bring them 15 minutes of fame and a career on the Telly.
As I recall, and I dint pay much attention at the time,
the choice was initially between lockdown and a massive epidemic
culling the herd and leaving the rest with immunity.
With an NHS in crisis
and unable to cope, and a potential death rate up to half a
million.
My cardiologist told me 'even if I wanted to, I cant send you to
Papworth, because the open heart surgery equipment that keeps
patients alive when they have stopped breathing and their hearts
have stopped, is fully in use keeping COVID patients alive'.
Why would he lie?
The scientific realty is that when we look at average annual death
rates, for whatever reason, there were around 150,000 more deaths
than expected during covid. It's like my friend, he isn't dying of
Covid, he is just dying. But if he hadn't had Covid he might have
lasted another couple of years.
Another friends wife didn't due strictly of motor neurone disease,
she died when she stopped breathing. Because her nervous system
stopped telling her lungs what to do. Or because she was given too
much medication (or just enough)
On 2024-02-14, Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
Exactly my point, the media and leaders as always LIED.
I think this sums you and others up. You say ALWAYS !! Think about that. EVERYTHING that the media and Leaders (whoever they are) say are lies? Really. Everything?
Plonk!
On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 15:23:13 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
When we were engineering students, there were only engineers and art
students. It was a standing joke.
I was a mathematics student - there were scientists, engineers who
were looked down on a bit, medical students who were scary, law students
more so and art students and social scientists who were beneath notice.
Gun ownership is a human right, whether you care to recognize the fact or not.
In article <uqienl$2lgt5$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/02/2024 11:39, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <uqi55t$2jrmq$1@dont-email.me>,
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Surely you remember that we had professors of serious note likeIf they were shut out, how could I become aware?.
Sunetra Gupta who were completely shut out of the conversation
because politicians had decided what the truth was going to be
and only allowed doctors who agreed with the narrative to speak.
Perhaps you were unaware of the group that formed of viral
experts from across the globe offering an alternative view which
was shut out.
So you admit you did not hear anything but the agenda main stream
media and did no research yourself. You just sucked up the official
narrative alone.
And yet, you know all the answers and I'm making all the mistakes.
There is no point in me continuing. It's clear from your remarks and
your admission that you were not interested to do the most basic
research and that your view of reality on this subject is entirely
propaganda led and then some.
Gun ownership is a human right
The police have guns, and many vets will have a captive bolt pistol for precisely that purpose.
In short whilst not arguing against your position in general, that is in fact a straw man.
... it will remind people of why there used to be a
balance between their Lord's temporal - the judiciary - their Lords
Spiritual - the Church, and the actual pragmatic government, which was electable, in charge of keeping the peace and protecting the realm, not
of engaging in moral dictatorship.
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the truth?
Probably the worst offender in this regard was Jacinda Ardern
insisting that the Kiwis only trust her misbegotten regime ...
Vaccinations certainly did work ...
... but we got the ones Big Pharma made the most cash out of...
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:36:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
... it will remind people of why there used to be a
balance between their Lord's temporal - the judiciary - their Lords
Spiritual - the Church, and the actual pragmatic government, which was
electable, in charge of keeping the peace and protecting the realm, not
of engaging in moral dictatorship.
Were there reliable, independent sources of information back in those
days?
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:50:25 +0000 (GMT), Bob Latham wrote:
Who decides which is misinformation and which is censoring the truth?
The question is not “who”, the question is “how”. There are well-known
techniques for verifying information. The good journalists know about
those.
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 16:29:25 GMT, Scott Alfter wrote:
Probably the worst offender in this regard was Jacinda Ardern
insisting that the Kiwis only trust her misbegotten regime ...
She got us through the pandemic, much more successfully than some other countries (I can mention names, if you like). That took the courage to act quickly and decisively, which she had.
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 15:14:52 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Vaccinations certainly did work ...
Wow, I guess we can count that as a step forward, at least.
... but we got the ones Big Pharma made the most cash out of...
There’s always a new twist on the “conspiracy”, isn’t there?
Come to think of it, if you are chased by the mafia or a terrorist group you qualify to get a self-defense gun but you don't get to practice with it beca not supposed to participate in a civilian competition with a "cop gun" and i supposed to get a different license. Usually, cops use their cop guns anyway because none of his cop friends is gonna fill a claim against a¡nother cop.
Slowly we developed vaccines for the viral infections, and they are now
a standard part of childhood. And the proof of the pudding is that we
no longer have epidemics of childhood diseases. …
On 13/02/2024 16:58, Richard Falken wrote:
I don't think Xi is such a big warmonger since he is taking heavy profits from
the opposite approach - opening to trade and sending Chinesse workforce to >> develop poor countries to bring them into the Chinesse sphere of influence. I
think his position regarding Taiwan is macho posturing. Putin has also a
non-weak (I won't say "strong") case that the NATO is making open advances >> torward Russian interests and that Russian efforts to collaborate with NATO >> against common enemies have not been welcome.
I think a bit more than that. Up to a point, I think your analysis is
fair enough, BUT Chinas economy is in deep shit, and when your economy
is in deeps shit having a war is handy to kill all your young people who
want a better life you can't offer them, and justify draconian measures
of control.
And China wants Taiwan because it doesn't have really good chip fab of
its own.
Not enough for large scale drone production
It has been noted that Russia, having nothing but oil money to purchase Western politicians and governments and Western tech, is up shit creek
if it's cut off from those.
China is vulnerable militarily and economically. in a similar way to
Japan in 1940.
A roll of the dice might be a 'nothing to lose but a population we dont
want anyway' move
On 14/02/2024 20:56, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:36:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
... it will remind people of why there used to be a balance between
their Lord's temporal - the judiciary - their Lords Spiritual - the
Church, and the actual pragmatic government, which was electable, in
charge of keeping the peace and protecting the realm, not of engaging
in moral dictatorship.
Were there reliable, independent sources of information back in those
days?
Of course not.
On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 07:44:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/02/2024 20:56, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 09:36:54 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
... it will remind people of why there used to be a balance between
their Lord's temporal - the judiciary - their Lords Spiritual - the
Church, and the actual pragmatic government, which was electable, in
charge of keeping the peace and protecting the realm, not of engaging
in moral dictatorship.
Were there reliable, independent sources of information back in those
days?
Of course not.
So what was this “balance” you were talking about?
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