I notice that the October 2020 congress proposed a few changes to the rules. One that caught my eye possible because it is rule one and I did read that far was the deletion of the word "Displacement" in the definition of rowing, so rule 1 now reads as below. Does this matter, why the proposed change?
Rowing is the propulsion of a boat, with or
without coxswain, by the muscular force of one or more
rowers, using oars as simple levers of the second order and
sitting with their backs to the direction of movement of the boat.
Rowing on a machine or in a tank which simulates the action of
rowing in a boat is also considered as rowing.
A rowing regatta is a sporting competition consisting of one or
more events divided, if necessary, into a number of races, in
one or more classes of boats for rowers divided, as a general
rule, into different categories of gender, age or weight.
On 10/12/2020 21:07, RS wrote:I guess that's my point, why remove the word "displacement" unless you want to open rowing up to other forms of hull?
I notice that the October 2020 congress proposed a few changes to the rules. One that caught my eye possible because it is rule one and I did read that far was the deletion of the word "Displacement" in the definition of rowing, so rule 1 now reads as below. Does this matter, why the proposed change?
Rowing is the propulsion of a boat, with or
without coxswain, by the muscular force of one or more
rowers, using oars as simple levers of the second order and
sitting with their backs to the direction of movement of the boat.
Rowing on a machine or in a tank which simulates the action of
rowing in a boat is also considered as rowing.
A rowing regatta is a sporting competition consisting of one or
more events divided, if necessary, into a number of races, in
one or more classes of boats for rowers divided, as a general
rule, into different categories of gender, age or weight.
So let's go hydrofoiling?
And is an oar really a "simple 2nd-order lever", since it's supposed
pivot point or fulcrum moves in & through the water such an obvious loop
& has a centre of effort whose location on the blade constantly varies?
Cheers -
Carl
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Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
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Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75 are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul
Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an
exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75
are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next
generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF
FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth
looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not
sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:Good to hear we will retain our displacement boats.
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul
Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website.
IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an
exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75
are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next
generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF
FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth
looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
KitPerhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono
around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing &
you can read about him here: http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams,
split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one
of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag
penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the
needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark
Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than
any racing eight): http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak: http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/
also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but
sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil.
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as
simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows)
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
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On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:Perhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul
Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website. >>>> IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an
exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75
are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next
generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF
FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth
looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not
sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing &
you can read about him here:
http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a
pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams,
split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one
of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under
reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag
penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the
intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the
needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark
Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than
any racing eight):
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/
also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but
sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by
bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil. >>
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as
simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows)
Cheers -
Carl
Good to hear we will retain our displacement boats.
Carl mentioned the AquaSkipper, I briefly owned one in the UK with a friend of mine and we actually got it to work, it is a lot of fun but hard work and once it stops it drops into the water and you have to get back to the shore to launch it again. It has a pivoting spoon attached to the front foil to control the height and I guess the angle of the rear foil. What I find interesting about it is that because of the way it's propelled, a sort of bounce up and down by the operator, the speed is a cyclic acceleration / deceleration similar to rowing. If the Aquaskipper can work then I'm sure eventually someone will come up with a functioning rowing version.
RS
On 17/12/2020 20:29, RS wrote:
On Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5, carl wrote:
On 17/12/2020 10:00, Kit Davies wrote:
On 16/12/2020 22:49, lladn...@gmail.com wrote:Perhaps the first venture into foiling in rowing was by James Grogono
Greetings Roger,
Your keen observation pricked my interest so I checked in with Paul >>>> Fuchs of FISA Equipment Committee, who responded.
"This was caught earlier but is not in the version now on the website. >>>> IIRC it has been moved to the appendix in the boat definition.
We will still be rowing displacement boats."
He did add in our correspondence that there may be a place for an
exhibition race of various types of boats.
I simply love the way America's Cup progressed to foils and the AC75 >>>> are simply incredible. I too believe that an exhibition of foiling
rowing boats would certainly plant the seed of innovation in the next >>>> generation of rowers.
Foils are now easily accessible and could easily be adapted from SURF >>>> FOILS or SUP FOILS.
There was an early rowing foil project from Yale which is well worth >>>> looking into.
May our sport progress and become more open to new ideas.
Ian Randall
Here's one from Delft University, NED. It's 5 years old now and I'm not >>> sure if it's still being developed:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCznVyTLPMH-iE1G3Nr3OJXQ
Kit
around 1970. James (a surgeon) was a leading light in speed sailing &
you can read about him here:
http://2014.foilingweek.com/people/james-grogono/
He added foils to a single, with a ride-height control system based on a >> pivoted spoon which skimmed the water surface.
James also had input into the UK's '87/88 Little America's Cup
challenge, for which my firm built the whole boat - hulls, beams,
split-flap wingsail & for'd-raked carbon dagger-boards.
The Yale experiment was possibly the most successful flying 1x, but one >> of our Dutch clients has fitted foils to his boat & had it flying under >> reasonable control.
As you see with the Delft University project, there's a high drag
penalty to overcome before getting enough speed to fully foil, & the
intermittent power application of rowing may not be best suited to the
needs of foiling.
An impressive version of human-powered foiling craft is seen in Mark
Drela's "Decavitator", with a record speed of 9.53m/s (50% faster than
any racing eight):
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/decavitator/
And then there's the Flyak:
http://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/hydrofoil-kayak-flyak/
also faster than an eight.
Plus any number of foiling bikes with impressive performances but
sometimes a tendency to sink if you don't keep moving.
Finally, there are devices such as Trampofoil and Aquaskipper, where by >> bouncing up & down you generate propulsion & lift from an undulating foil.
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as
simply messing about in boats" (Kenneth Graham, Wind in the Willows)
Cheers -
Carl
Carl,Good to hear we will retain our displacement boats.
Carl mentioned the AquaSkipper, I briefly owned one in the UK with a friend of mine and we actually got it to work, it is a lot of fun but hard work and once it stops it drops into the water and you have to get back to the shore to launch it again. It has a pivoting spoon attached to the front foil to control the height and I guess the angle of the rear foil. What I find interesting about it is that because of the way it's propelled, a sort of bounce up and down by the operator, the speed is a cyclic acceleration / deceleration similar to rowing. If the Aquaskipper can work then I'm sure eventually someone will come up with a functioning rowing version.
RS
Mmm. While the rowing stroke involves a foiling process, it is defined
by the use of oars. An oscillating foil (per AquaSkipper & Trampofoil)
is a perfectly viable propulsor - & is enduringly popular among fish and cetaceans - but I've yet to see a system of that kind that would be sufficiently similar to rowing, or as effective, to be accepted by rowers.
Coracles, of course, are propelled by a (laterally) oscillating action
with a paddle, & the single oar "sculling over the stern" method is
handy with dinghies.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells
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