Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the end of
Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to heed single
yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double yellows.

And it is reported that the FIA is running a series of extra rear wing
tests, with an eye to whether existing regulatory tests should be
modified or augmented in future.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
The best I can do is freak out in moderation.
- Bob Mankoff
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 11/20/2021 3:10 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:

And it is reported that the FIA is running a series of extra rear wing tests, with an eye to whether existing regulatory tests should be
modified or augmented in future.

Why not test the 'relaxing' front wing flaps, too?

FIA might learn something.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 2021-11-20 12:22 p.m., News wrote:

On 11/20/2021 3:10 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:

And it is reported that the FIA is running a series of extra rear wing
tests, with an eye to whether existing regulatory tests should be
modified or augmented in future.

Why not test the 'relaxing' front wing flaps, too?

FIA might learn something.

Or maybe it just doesn't matter to them, because all the teams take as
much advantage from the rules as they possibly can.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 11/20/2021 3:22 PM, News wrote:

On 11/20/2021 3:10 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:

And it is reported that the FIA is running a series of extra rear
wing tests, with an eye to whether existing regulatory tests should
be modified or augmented in future.

Why not test the 'relaxing' front wing flaps, too?

Asked and answered earlier. You may not like the answer, but there's no
right of review when you bring nothing new to the table.

--
Mark Jackson - https://mark-jackson.online/
The best I can do is freak out in moderation.
- Bob Mankoff
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

What happened to Perez? No one expects him near pole but he normally gets out of Q2 easely.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 2021-11-20 2:21 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:

What happened to Perez? No one expects him near pole but he normally gets out of Q2 easely.

There are drivers who just don't come to grips with a new track as
quickly as other drivers do.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

Alan wrote:

On 2021-11-20 2:21 p.m., XYXPDQ wrote:

What happened to Perez? No one expects him near pole but he
normally gets out of Q2 easely.

There are drivers who just don't come to grips with a new track as
quickly as other drivers do.

<sigh>

...and that is why he was so far off the pace all weekend... or was he?
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:10:38 -0500, Mark Jackson wrote:

Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the end of
Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to heed single
yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double yellows.

What has happened with these investigations, all has suddenly gone quiet
(even if the drivers are not to be penalised it would be good to know)



--
Laugh, and the world ignores you. Crying doesn't help either.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:31:11 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:10:38 -0500, Mark Jackson wrote:

Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the end of
Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to heed single
yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double yellows.

What has happened with these investigations, all has suddenly gone quiet (even if the drivers are not to be penalised it would be good to know)

Ok, Just seen - 3 places for Bottas, 5 places for Vestappen



--
A diplomat is a man who can convince his wife she'd look stout in a fur
coat.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:40:26 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:31:11 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:10:38 -0500, Mark Jackson wrote:

Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the end of
Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to heed single
yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double yellows.

What has happened with these investigations, all has suddenly gone
quiet (even if the drivers are not to be penalised it would be good to
know)

Ok, Just seen - 3 places for Bottas, 5 places for Vestappen

Horner now griping because it looks like an over zealous marshal after
race director called clear.
even if that is the case Flags are the final word & must always be
obeyed, imagine the carnage if divers could decide that flags were
invalid & could be ignored.





--
Always there remain portions of our heart into which no one is able to
enter,
invite them as we may.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:40:26 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:31:11 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:10:38 -0500, Mark Jackson wrote:

Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the

end of >>> Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to
heed single >>> yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double
yellows. >>>

What has happened with these investigations, all has suddenly gone
quiet (even if the drivers are not to be penalised it would be

good to >> know)

Ok, Just seen - 3 places for Bottas, 5 places for Vestappen

Horner now griping because it looks like an over zealous marshal
after race director called clear.
even if that is the case Flags are the final word & must always be
obeyed,

imagine the carnage if divers could decide that flags were
invalid & could be ignored.

Two drivers/incidents come to mind:

Mika Hakkinen
Jules Bianchi

Between them the necessity for draconian penalties is clear.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 22/11/2021 1:44 am, alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:40:26 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:31:11 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:10:38 -0500, Mark Jackson wrote:

Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the end of
Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to heed single
yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double yellows.

What has happened with these investigations, all has suddenly gone
quiet (even if the drivers are not to be penalised it would be good to
know)

Ok, Just seen - 3 places for Bottas, 5 places for Vestappen

Horner now griping because it looks like an over zealous marshal after
race director called clear.
even if that is the case Flags are the final word & must always be
obeyed, imagine the carnage if divers could decide that flags were
invalid & could be ignored.

Horner? Griping? I find that hard to believe! </s>
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
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On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:59:44 -0000 (UTC), Bigbird wrote:

alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:40:26 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:31:11 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:10:38 -0500, Mark Jackson wrote:

Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the

end of >>> Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to heed
single >>> yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double yellows.

What has happened with these investigations, all has suddenly gone
quiet (even if the drivers are not to be penalised it would be

good to >> know)

Ok, Just seen - 3 places for Bottas, 5 places for Vestappen

Horner now griping because it looks like an over zealous marshal after
race director called clear.
even if that is the case Flags are the final word & must always be
obeyed,

imagine the carnage if divers could decide that flags were invalid &
could be ignored.

Two drivers/incidents come to mind:

Mika Hakkinen Jules Bianchi

Between them the necessity for draconian penalties is clear.

Exactly.
The on the spot marshal may have seen something race control are not
aware of at that time & should allays be the definitive statement on
tract status





--
Reality must take precedence over public relations, for Mother Nature
cannot be fooled.
-- R. P. Feynman
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

In article <sndp31$ksl$1@gioia.aioe.org>, alister.ware@ntlworld.com
says...

Exactly.
The on the spot marshal may have seen something race control are not
aware of at that time & should allays be the definitive statement on
tract status

So a marshal waving a green flag with race control signaling yellow to
the cars would be......?


--
Alan LeHun
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

Alan LeHun wrote:

In article <sndp31$ksl$1@gioia.aioe.org>, alister.ware@ntlworld.com
says...

Exactly.
The on the spot marshal may have seen something race control are
not aware of at that time & should allays be the definitive
statement on tract status

So a marshal waving a green flag with race control signaling yellow
to the cars would be......?

Normal. A green flag is always waved after the yellow sector.

--
Bozo bin
Texasgate
Enjoy!
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

In article <xn0n5nfca8z7kql002@news.eternal-september.org>, bigbird.nospam.usenet@gmail.com says...

So a marshal waving a green flag with race control signaling yellow
to the cars would be......?

Normal. A green flag is always waved after the yellow sector.

Would not be normal to have a yellow in the car /after/ a yellow sector, shirly. Do they not have to drive to a delta when the yellow is
indicated in the car?

But I hear your point.

--
Alan LeHun
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:44:33 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:40:26 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:31:11 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:10:38 -0500, Mark Jackson wrote:

Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the end of
Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to heed single
yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double yellows.

What has happened with these investigations, all has suddenly gone
quiet (even if the drivers are not to be penalised it would be good to
know)

Ok, Just seen - 3 places for Bottas, 5 places for Vestappen

Horner now griping because it looks like an over zealous marshal after
race director called clear.
even if that is the case Flags are the final word & must always be
obeyed, imagine the carnage if divers could decide that flags were
invalid & could be ignored.

& it seems to have resulted in him being summonsed before the beak after
the race





--
<WeirdArms> erikm: bugger alan cox on a chip, I want alan cox in a book ;)

- Adam Wiggins on #kernelnewbies
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 2021-11-21 4:44 a.m., alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:40:26 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 12:31:11 -0000 (UTC), alister wrote:

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:10:38 -0500, Mark Jackson wrote:

Stemming from Gasly's front wing and tire failure right at the end of
Q3, Sainz and Bottas have been summoned for failure to heed single
yellows, and Verstappen for failure to heed double yellows.

What has happened with these investigations, all has suddenly gone
quiet (even if the drivers are not to be penalised it would be good to
know)

Ok, Just seen - 3 places for Bottas, 5 places for Vestappen

Horner now griping because it looks like an over zealous marshal after
race director called clear.
even if that is the case Flags are the final word & must always be
obeyed, imagine the carnage if divers could decide that flags were
invalid & could be ignored.

Exactly correct.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

Alan LeHun wrote:

In article <xn0n5nfca8z7kql002@news.eternal-september.org>, bigbird.nospam.usenet@gmail.com says...

So a marshal waving a green flag with race control signaling
yellow to the cars would be......?

Normal. A green flag is always waved after the yellow sector.

Would not be normal to have a yellow in the car after a yellow
sector, shirly. Do they not have to drive to a delta when the yellow
is indicated in the car?

But I hear your point.

I think if you read the stewards decision it's clear that Max took a
risk when it should have been obvious to him that a yellow flag
situation was in effect regardless of whether his steering wheel was
lit up. If there had not been an obviously disabled car on track I
would have more sympathy.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On Monday, 22 November 2021 at 07:26:01 UTC, Bigbird wrote:

Alan LeHun wrote:

In article <xn0n5nfca...@news.eternal-september.org>, bigbird.no...@gmail.com says...

So a marshal waving a green flag with race control signaling
yellow to the cars would be......?

Normal. A green flag is always waved after the yellow sector.

Would not be normal to have a yellow in the car after a yellow
sector, shirly. Do they not have to drive to a delta when the yellow
is indicated in the car?

But I hear your point.

I think if you read the stewards decision it's clear that Max took a
risk when it should have been obvious to him that a yellow flag
situation was in effect regardless of whether his steering wheel was
lit up. If there had not been an obviously disabled car on track I
would have more sympathy.

It's one of the downsides of the reliance on the in car dash + light boards that the drivers seem to pay less heed to the flags and / or actual
incidents on site.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 20/11/2021 23:39, Alan wrote:

On 2021-11-20 12:22 p.m., News wrote:

On 11/20/2021 3:10 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:

And it is reported that the FIA is running a series of extra rear
wing tests, with an eye to whether existing regulatory tests should
be modified or augmented in future.

Why not test the 'relaxing' front wing flaps, too?

FIA might learn something.

Or maybe it just doesn't matter to them, because all the teams take as
much advantage from the rules as they possibly can.

Or why not ban all wings and go back to pure ground effect?
No problems following or overtaking then - but of course no nonsense DRS.

(The former "mowerman" writes from his new home in Greece...)

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 2021-11-22 12:02 p.m., CJ wrote:

On 20/11/2021 23:39, Alan wrote:

On 2021-11-20 12:22 p.m., News wrote:

On 11/20/2021 3:10 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:

And it is reported that the FIA is running a series of extra rear
wing tests, with an eye to whether existing regulatory tests should
be modified or augmented in future.

Why not test the 'relaxing' front wing flaps, too?

FIA might learn something.

Or maybe it just doesn't matter to them, because all the teams take as
much advantage from the rules as they possibly can.

Or why not ban all wings and go back to pure ground effect?

Sure. I'd be fine with that as a plan, but a couple of points:

1. F1 has to consider what will attract an audience, and wings have come
to be associated with the pinnacle of motorsport. To eliminate them
would confuse and alienate some large segment of your audience.

2. It's very hard to design a car to be perfectly balanced
aerodynamically from the word go, so having at least some wings on the
car that can be adjust to achieve that balance is almost a necessity.

No problems following or overtaking then - but of course no nonsense DRS.

3. What? You think that simply because cars don't have wings that the
air won't be disturbed behind the car? The simple fact is that if the
cars are to maintain the same sort of lap times as they currently have
(and again, that is a necessity if you're not going to have less
knowledgeable fans wondering why the new cars are so "slow), then you've
only got a couple of choices:

a. Generate the same amount of down force, and while ground effects
tunnels would generate it somewhat more efficiently and thus disturb the
air LESS than the wings do right now, they would still disturb the air
quite a lot, still leaving following closely a problem, which leads
directly to:

b. More mechanical grip (i.e. stickier tires).

Knowledgeable people have said the same thing for years: if you want
better wheel-to-wheel racing, use bigger, stickier tires and depend less
on aerodynamic grip.

Pirelli is basically building tires to the specification that the FIA
thinks they want, and they could easily make tires that are stickier
while keeping the tread life the same as it is currently. (i.e. they can probably make a tire with the grip of the current softest they make but
with a tread life that is more like the hardest they make).

With all the artificial limitations that the FIA has imposed that make
perfect sense if racing is to be a good contest (ABS and traction
control), I don't know why they won't do this.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2021 15:54:44 -0000, Alan LeHun wrote:

In article <sndp31$ksl$1@gioia.aioe.org>, alister.ware@ntlworld.com
says...

Exactly.
The on the spot marshal may have seen something race control are not
aware of at that time & should allays be the definitive statement on
tract status

So a marshal waving a green flag with race control signaling yellow to
the cars would be......?

you obey the signal with the highest priority/severity
where green would be the lowest priority & red the highest

in other words in case of doubt err on the side of saftey




--
My Aunt MAUREEN was a military advisor to IKE & TINA TURNER!!
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

In article <snh3ts$179s$2@gioia.aioe.org>, alister.ware@ntlworld.com
says...

The on the spot marshal may have seen something race control are not
aware of at that time & should allays be the definitive statement on
tract status

So a marshal waving a green flag with race control signaling yellow to
the cars would be......?

you obey the signal with the highest priority/severity
where green would be the lowest priority & red the highest

in other words in case of doubt err on the side of saftey

Yes. Marshal does not have the 'definitive statement'.



--
Alan LeHun
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 2021-11-22 9:30 p.m., Alan LeHun wrote:

In article <snh3ts$179s$2@gioia.aioe.org>, alister.ware@ntlworld.com
says...

The on the spot marshal may have seen something race control are not
aware of at that time & should allays be the definitive statement on
tract status

So a marshal waving a green flag with race control signaling yellow to
the cars would be......?

you obey the signal with the highest priority/severity
where green would be the lowest priority & red the highest

in other words in case of doubt err on the side of saftey

Yes. Marshal does not have the 'definitive statement'.

Definitive as far as a driver on track seeing him waving a yellow flag?

He absolutely does.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

In article <snhvt7$co4$1@gioia.aioe.org>, nope@nope.com says...

Definitive as far as a driver on track seeing him waving a yellow flag?

He absolutely does.

Definitive as far as a yellow (or red or whatever) from any source is.

The marshal is no more definitive than race control or the race
director.



--
Alan LeHun
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)

On 2021-11-23 7:36 a.m., Alan LeHun wrote:

In article <snhvt7$co4$1@gioia.aioe.org>, nope@nope.com says...

Definitive as far as a driver on track seeing him waving a yellow flag?

He absolutely does.

Definitive as far as a yellow (or red or whatever) from any source is.

The marshal is no more definitive than race control or the race
director.

And I never suggested he is.

But in the context of what the driver MUST to from a safety perspective,
he (or she) must always obey the signal which is the most serious.

If the driver has one signal indicating a green track and another
indicating a yellow, the yellow must be obeyed, and it doesn't matter
which way around it is; marshal or dashboard or flashing light.

In an ideal world, they would never disagree, but in practical terms,
marshals throw the flag the moment they see an incident and
simultaneously, another marshal at the station is communicating that
incident to race control which will result in the light on the dash
coming a little bit later. Similarly, when the incident clears, the
yellow flag will be withdrawn a little before race control can get the
word and turn off the dashboard light.

But if either indicates yellow, the yellow is what must be obeyed.
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Win32
* Origin: SportNet Gateway Site (24:150/2)