--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.Latest, June 11,
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:Merc messed up bad so drag everyone else down with you.
--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?Latest, June 11,
'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars, declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant crash.'
On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 12:34:40 PM UTC-7, bra wrote:
On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:
--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes,
the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the
car, and potentially to the rest of the field.
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?Latest, June 11,
'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to
address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars,
declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant
crash.'
Merc messed up bad so drag everyone else down with you.
--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
In article <bfd525ee-90c3-4033-8cbc-4b059eb4a6e8n@googlegroups.com>, brafield@hotmail.com says...
--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
The Ferrari porpoises just as much, doesn't it?
On 12/06/2022 13:04, Alan LeHun wrote:Guardian today: " the drivers were questioning the bouncing phenomenon, not exclusive to Mercedes, and which, they fear, could cause long-term physical damage."
In article <bfd525ee-90c3-4033...@googlegroups.com>,
braf...@hotmail.com says...
--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
The Ferrari porpoises just as much, doesn't it?It definitely breaks more.
Cheers
Geoff
On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:Talk of F1 intervening soon.
--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?Latest, June 11,
'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars, declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant crash.'
On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 12:34:40 PM UTC-7, bra wrote:
On Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:31:36 AM UTC-7, bra wrote:
--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.Latest, June 11,
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
'George Russell has doubled down on his calls for Formula 1 to address the rCLsafety limitationrCY in its new-design 2022 cars, declaring itrCOs only a matter of time before the chassis bouncing phenomenon, also known as porpoising, results in a significant crash.'
Merc messed up bad so drag everyone else down with you.
CFD hell.
--- because, regardless of its speed, which is no great shakes, the shakes from its porpoising are dangerous to the driver, the car, and potentially to the rest of the field.It's definitely an unusual situation.
Surely stewards can order a team to pull out of an event?
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?
That might be problematic.
Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):introduced.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>
In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>
It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>
And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had
On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?
That might be problematic.
Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>
In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>
It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>
And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.
On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 00:22:44 UTC+1, Alan wrote:
On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael.. wrote:
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?
That might be problematic.
True, there's not much room with the driver already pretty much sitting on the ground.
Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>
In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>
It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>
And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA hadintroduced.
Chapman was a genius.
I hope the FIA hold firm and tell the teams it's their problem.
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:
On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?
That might be problematic.
Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>
In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs
entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>
It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is
moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>
And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road
surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.
In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???
Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???
Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???
Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?
Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
Let me know if you can find one.
Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???
Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
Than watch Lewis.
Do you see a difference ?
Food for thought.
build
On 6/15/2022 10:50 AM, build wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:
On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed? >>
That might be problematic.
Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>
In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs >> entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>
It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is >> moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>
And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road >> surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.
In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???
Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???
Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???
Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?
Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
Let me know if you can find one.
Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???
Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
Than watch Lewis.
Do you see a difference ?
Food for thought.
buildThat will continue until a driver fails on course or must be extracted
at the finish.
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?
On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 1:25:09 AM UTC+10, News wrote:
On 6/15/2022 10:50 AM, build wrote:
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:That will continue until a driver fails on course or must be extracted
On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed? >>>>
That might be problematic.
Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>
In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs >>>> entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>
It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is >>>> moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>
And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road >>>> surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.
In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???
Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???
Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???
Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?
Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
Let me know if you can find one.
Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???
Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
Than watch Lewis.
Do you see a difference ?
Food for thought.
build
at the finish.
That's happened before. Particularly the early eighties Ground Effect cars, they were violently bumpy. It was visible even in very low resolution TV's. I recall a bloke saying "Someone should invent suspension and give the drivers bones a rest."
Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).
I'll watch a few post race interviews on Friday. I'll bet the drivers making the most noise about the problem will be those who are finishing behind their team mates atm.
So, Lewis, Pierre, Dan, Esteban, Nic and Lance to name some of the obvious candidates. So what the others say will be closer to reality. i.e, they don't need excuses. Max, Checo, George, Seb, Nando, Lando, Valtteri, Alex, Yuki, KMag, Charles.
I'm now curious to see them :-)
build
Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked
like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).
build wrote:
Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked
like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).
You heard his complaints earlier in the weekend though? ( also sarcasm,
of course you didn't)
So George (58 starts) coped better than Lewis (296 starts) and this
shocks your dumb ass. (clue in the last two words)
On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 9:22:44 AM UTC+10, Alan wrote:
On 2022-06-14 12:57, michael wrote:
I suspect this may be a stupid question,but would it not be possible to install suspension under the drivers' seats?I might be possible... ...but doing it after the car has been designed?
That might be problematic.
Review the Lotus solution (promptly banned):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_88>
In short, they used one set of very progressive springs between the
wheels and the aerodynamic panels of the car and another set of springs
entirely that went between the wheels and the conventional monocoque
chassis and engine/gearbox, which of course meant the driver was
experiencing a lot less vertical acceleration.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjTcMP2wnOg>
It's not easy to see, but you can sort of see that the driver's head is
moving up and down in relation to the bodywork.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMtkRcqvGaU>
And there you can see how the outer suspension let the aerodynamic
bodywork move down until the sides were almost in contact with the road
surface; circumventing the 60mm gap that the FIA had introduced.
In that case the driver was not suspended from the chassis though. I presume you know why ???
Why do we prefer a 'stiff' car rather than a 'soft' car ???
Can you imagine not being directly connected to the suspension and the resulting "feel" of the tyre ???
Why do they removed the seats from production cars and bolt in race seats directly to the chassis?
Why is it that I've never seen a suspended seat in any racecar ?
Let me know if you can find one.
Why is it that we go to great lengths to mould ourselves into the seat and connect that seat directly to the chassis and then strap ourselves in really, really tightly. so we "feel" every tiny, teeny pebble in the pavement ???
Go back to the finish at Baku and watch George get out of the car.
Than watch Lewis.
Do you see a difference ?
Food for thought.
build wrote:
Did you watch George bound out of the car and dance away? He looked
like he was suffering (note that is sarcasm).
You heard his complaints earlier in the weekend though? ( also sarcasm,
of course you didn't)
So George (58 starts) coped better than Lewis (296 starts) and this
shocks your dumb ass. (clue in the last two words)
THE TWO MERCEDES CARS HAD DIFFERENT SETUPS!
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